Tuesday, November 22, 2011

AC Grayling and Tim Crane - 'Atheists on Religion' Synopsis

source: audio: or mp3 download:

Updated 18 April 2013

  • 'Tim Crane is a convinced Atheist'

  • Atheists on Religion: AC Grayling and Tim Crane at the LSE 1 hour audio on the discussion:

  • 7': ACG 
    - The term Atheism is no more valid than saying you are an Agoblinist or Afairyist,  ACG is a Naturalist or freethinker as well as being an atheist. What kind of universe is  this?

    8': secularism - place of religion in the public square. Religious voice has been overamplified eg BBC, faith schools, 26 Bishops in House of Lords. 10% of people go x3 a month to a church or mosque.

    12': Bishops are the little men behind the Wizard of Oz. Religious views should be proportioned down - reduce amplification; they have right to exist but no more than that.

    13' Humanistic ethics and morals.

    TC from 15':
    Once you've decided that you are an atheist its boring, atheism has no ethical content,

    17' don't rejoice in atheism, just accept. More interesting is what to think about religion and what to do about it,

    18': disagrees with 4 horsemen  - see religion as false & irrational
    19' New Atheists want to eliminate influences of religion; cosmological matter - how the world is. Arguements against god. Are Religionists irrational? 

    22' People are unmoved, talk past each other. 

    23' Religion main content is feeling of 'theres more to it than this - ineffable mystery and structure of the world'. 

    24' the Trinity is mysterious. 3 things can't be one. Religious are not bothered by this.

    25' Identification. Most people are not interested in hypothesis. Bishops are irrelevant to secularisation.

    • AC from 27'30: 
    • Church created primary schools in 1800s to combat fairies - to combat superstition! 

    • Atheists arguements do change Christians. Religions are on backfoot - secularisation is everywhere. Non-religious have doubled in 15 years in USA. Religions feel threatened. eg muslims girls who see western girls in bikinis! Death throes of religion cf 16/17th century - reformation - wars of religion - 33': 30 years war - church lost power, 1 in 3 Germans died. 

    • Religions have hijacked a great part of being a human being - eg emotional responses eg beauty, secular spirit of world. In China understood without religion. 

    • 35': The Fred move - god of the gaps

  • 36': science lives ok with uncertainty. Religion wants neat story (30 mins for religion, 3 years for physics). Fairys and tooth fairy. Religionists are NOT harmless - because of the Fred did it move.  

  • Tim Crane: 
    38' 45: Spiritual feelings - this world is fundamentally mysterious say the religions.

    41' 30: religions were proto-science, religions developed as understanding - agencies moved to mountain tops, then the sun/sky, then heavens. Trajectory of deities further and further away.

    44': numinous, wrong type of mushrooms! Recent in history of man. Roman empire religio 'to bind'; early Christians were called atheists! Trajectory of deities are getting further away from earth!

  • Tim Crane 
    47': why are Catholic funerals so sad if they are going to heaven! Cosmological side is not too important for religious.

    dishonest to say that you will meet loved ones again. Give fellow humans comfort instead. CCTV replace all seeing god!

    52' Happiness is more important than truth for some people.

    53' the Noble Lie cf would you tell everyone about a meteor. Zeus = Christian story. Don't let churches off the hook. Resist that way of thinking.

  • 58' questioner - tooth fairy and Father Xmas don't persist because they don't save you from dying! Religions force comes from denial of death. 59' Q: what happens when religious attitude eg sexuality leads to unhappiness TC 60': death is a mystery - why should ones life end? In some cases it is better for someone to believe in something false and be happy. AC 61' anxiety about death can be because havn't achieved enough. 63' you can't be afraid of nothing - which is what death is!

  • ACG 
    64': cruelty of religions frightening old people who think they could go to hell.
    AC 66': 1.3 Billion Chinese prove that the innate concept of god is wrong!! AC 70': 99% of religious take on the religion of their culture / parents.
    AC 78': if churches closed their doors tomorrow we wouldn't be losing anything! 'To set Promethius free'
    AC book proof of non-existence of god.
    80' Totalitarianism - dictators Stalin, Hitler - shocking to think about defending an ideology - 1000s

  • 1000s die - Enlightenment - diversity of opinons.

    would not lament loss of religion - but speculation would disappear (CGS: what about science!!).

    87': creationism is a problem in USA not in UK (what the..!)

    89': what is a non-fundamental atheist!

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