Ghettoes of superstition
Far from aiding social cohesion, faith schools only cause further divisions. Religious worship must be relegated to the private sphere and kept there.
AC Grayling
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So the schools secretary, Ed Balls, and faith group leaders have formed a partnership endorsing faith schools as a force to improve social cohesion in England. This gasp-inducing statement is on a par with "let us build and run more nuclear power stations Chernobyl fashion - oh, and let's put them in city centres". In the face of the failure of multiculturalism, with the awful example of faith-divided schooling in Northern Ireland over decades, with news of Deobandi control of half of British mosques where hostility to the host community is preached,
the government is choosing to continue to fly in the face of all reason and experience, and to design and pay for - with our tax money - greater future divisiveness and trouble. It is staggering.
On the news we hear: "At a conference in London, Mr Balls presented a joint policy statement with Church of England, Roman Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Greek Orthodox and Sikh representatives." That is,
representatives of an active constituency of weekly worshippers of 8% of the British population, all of them votaries of ancient superstitions, all of them with grubby hands rummaging in the pot of public funds, and some of them doing it with the useful background threat of violence and civil unrest unless the rummaging pays off. The spectacle is appalling.
The question is not solely one of public policy, or the fact that the government's otherwise admirable desire for social cohesion is going to be negated, not enhanced,
by paying to keep children apart from one another in competing ghettoes of superstition.
There is the point also that if parents wish to bring up their children in their own traditional superstitions, they should do it on their own time and at their own expense. The secular majority in this country should bitterly oppose the use of their tax money for this misconceived policy.
Religion, the bane of the modern world in so many respects, has got to be relegated to the private sphere and kept there.
And religious worship (not of course historical and sociological comparative study of the subject) should be removed from publicly funded schooling, as being divisive there too - among many other deficits.
This argument has in fact been won, and won repeatedly. Those pressing for more faith-based schooling use a variety of contradictory claims to support their case, from standards (the contradiction here is the ever-improving, ever-mounting GCSE and A-level results across the education sector) to the grail of social cohesion. It is this latter where absurdity most appears.
"We desire all British people to live together in peace, harmony and mutual understanding, so let us divide our children into a multiplicity of schooling apartheids where they can be taught that all the other children in their separate ghettoes worship false gods."Good thinking, Mr Ed Balls. Let us, in your honour, officially baptise the policy "A Continuing Balls-Up".
I think it can be argued that faith schools also have a negative effect on standards. I've seen a few studies that have attempted to prove the assertion that religious schools provide a better education. Once the effects of socio-economic background are controlled for, there is no effect.
space in an already crowded school week is given to transmitting folk tales, rather than something useful.why do we privilege one type of ideology over another? If a group of committed Marxists were to establish a school, using public money but only for the children of Marxists, and were to teach Marxism as the truth, there would - rightly - be uproar. Why is this not so when it comes to religion?
Comment No. 805861
This is a very apt time to raise this subject - I'm sure Mohammad Atta and his friends were all the products of "Faith" Schools.
Teaching small children that lies and myths are true is an abuse of power and should be illegal - not endorsed by a democratic government.
Comment No. 805855
Around one third of all state-funded schools are faith schools and they completely control their own admissions policy despite contributing very little to the school budget and nothing towards the training of teachers. If religious leaders want their own schools, they should pay for them.
In any case, they are surely failing on their own terms. despite having disproportionate access to schoolchildren along with the proseletyzing opportunities, only around 5% of the adult population regularly attends any kind of church service, some presumably only do so to get their children into the nice middle class faith school.
Church of England schools have a lower proportion of children receiving free school meals, so they're systematically excluding the poor. How very uncharitable.
That this is all funded from general revenue is an affront to democracy.
"- Finally, why do we privilege one type of ideology over another? If a group of committed Marxists were to establish a school, using public money but only for the children of Marxists, and were to teach Marxism as the truth, there would - rightly - be uproar. Why is this not so when it comes to religion?"
Hear hear, keep religion out of schools and no public funding for those who choose to use schools for the indoctrination of children. notsureofmyname, it's a common problem, you could always do what so many others do and lie about your strict religious observance, the hypocrisy though is difficult to deal with.
realtheologik
"GBR Which faith schools in England have been shown to be divisive/dangerous? "
Ulster. Where almost all education was divided along religious lines and the different tribes hated each others uts. They seem to have stopped blowing each other (and us) up, let's hope it lasts, but neither the IRA nor the Orange Order seems to be something we want to adopt in the mainland UK.
I have no problem (unlike Mr. Grayling) of anyone believing in "ancient superstitions". If they want to then fine. They can believe that pixies live under toadstools for all I care. Where I do concur with him is that religion is a private matter of concience for the individual and nothing whatsoever to do with the state. Schools should not be in the business of teaching religion and governments should not be paying for it with our money. A subject called "Religious Studies" for example where one is taught a little about the tenets of all the major religions for information's sake would be fine. But catechism should be confined to the home and the religious building of your choice.
We're taking a big step backwards as a society if 'faith schools' (an oxymoron in my opinion) are increasing in numbers and influence.
It's rather a catch-22. If people are sufficiently educated in the areas of Biology, physics and philosophy, they are unlikely to believe in an omnipotent ghost in the sky. But they're not, they breed, and then they indoctrinate their own hapless children, with financial assistance from the state. Wonderful state of affairs.
I suppose it could be worse - we're not quite stoning rape victims in the town square, but this is cause for discomfort.
I am a firm advocate in stopping all funding of 'faith schools' and instead introducing philosophy as a compulsory GCSE subject. Knowing how to challenge systems of thought is a vital skill, and it makes me very sad that instead of being taught how to evaluate belief systems, children are more and more being told that faith is a virtue and 'doubt' is something to be overcome by prayer.
I repeat:
Blimey - why does religion get all this attention? I know we like to have a gossip but honestly.
Action plan:
1. Ban all non-secular institutions from teaching our children.
2. Remove charitable status from all religious activity.
3. When religious activists are not attempting to blow us up, then the best course of action is to ignore them.
Result:
Inter religious tensions will cool.
Religious based terrorism will vanish.
Excellent article that makes eminent sense.
The religious continue to expect their fantasies to be propped up by public money, each belief system hoping to out-do the others.
It's an utter disgrace that in a predominantly secular society the majority are still expected to tip-toe round the religious and dole out the cash for fear of being blown up or causing 'offence' to an outdated minority.
Given the hallowed "choice" of a good non denominational and a good faith school to which to send my children I would opt for the former. But in many places there is no such choice. By the characteristic English fiddle of not asserting our atheism and splashing out a bit more on the mortgage we can get our children into the church school where there is more money, less poverty, fewer problem kids and fewer glottal stops. Let's be honest, if anonymously.
Apart from a couple of yummy mummies who have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning, nobody I know there really cares about the church. None of the kids are brainwashed by the lukewarm CofE shtick (thank God!). It's a middle class thing. Embarrassing to admit it but we can't actually afford private schooling for our kids, so we say let's keep the faith schools because they will actually help our kids get to uni for free.
Totally agree with everything the author writes. The Government's education policy is a complete shambles. I'm fully in favour of the French approach where education and religion are kept well apart.
Its absolutely disgusting that this can happen in 21st century britain, and to use tax payers money for it as well!!! Religion has NO PLACE in schools. Infact if I was in the same position as notsureofmyname and had a kid, I Would rather do a 20 mile round trip to drop the kids off than have them brought up as stupid mindless bigots, which is what faith schools do. IF faith schools are to be expanded, then employers should be able to disciminate on faith; therefore when I interview people, I should be able to say "dont believe in evolution? sorry, you dont have a hope in hell of working here!"
Personally, if it was upto me, I would ban the teaching of religion to anyone under 18.
I have read (in this and the other blogs on the subject) a great deal of intolerance from people who claim to oppose the bigotry and intolerance of religious fundamentalism.
For the record, I am as agnostic as Richard Dawkins and have a doctorate in science. However I am Jewish and I consider it our democratic right to bring up our child educated in Jewish culture,traditions and mores.
The(primary) school that my son attends is part of the state sector but parents are asked for voluntary contributions of over £1000 per year to cover the cost of Jewish studies (which are not funded by tax payers money). The pupils get a very good secular education as evinced by the exceptionally good exam results and by the time they eventually leave school most pupils go on to play a productive role in society and very few exhibit anti-social behaviour.
There is a wide range of 'faith' schools. Some are very insular others not so, some fail their children in terms of providing a good secular education many provide an excellent education. We would not send our son to the school he goes to if we were not confident he would get a very good secular education. Many of the contributors post as if they believed every faith 'school' produced religious fundamentalists. I am the product of a 'Jewish education' and I am very well integrated.
I do wish people would stop dictating as to how other people should bring up their children (assuming no abuse). We believe we are enriching our child by giving him an understanding of the culture of his forebears - if you believe you can do better for your children fine do as you wish, but don't lecture us on how to bring up ours.
"There is the point also that if parents wish to bring up their children in their own traditional superstitions, they should do it on their own time and at their own expense."
Certainly there is no coherent ethical basis for the public funding of faith schools, but I would myself go further and say it should be illegal in the first place to inculcate superstition into the mind of a child. What objection could a reasonable person have to such a proscription?
Mr Bump - the final sentence of your third point against faith schools is the most important point in this thread so far:
"It is also likely to reduce the chances that children will be open to adopting other faiths."
Religion is all about self-preservation and the instinctive desire for safety in numbers. They will do anything to preserve and promote their own superstitions, faith schools being possibly the most effective way of doing so.
Grayling is again vilified by the faith community for stating the obvious:
Faith schools are divisive. This is true, though, of all faith teaching. If only it could be taught even-handedly.
The truth is this is not possible. All teaching of faith is biased by the view of the teacher. They will always, inevitably, be unable to speak about other beliefs with the same plausibility as their own. Just as any contributor here would be unable to teach that red and yellow mixed makes green -and treat that view the same as the idea that they mix to be orange.
The most even handed solution, then, is not to teach religion at all (and certainly not to practice it at school). Let parents who want their children exposed to faith take them to church/mosque/temple/other.
If it is your own children's faith you care about, there is no problem with schools being faith free, because you have your churches to take them to. The only reason for wanting to teach religion or preach religion in schools is to get to all those children whose parents are not exposing them to faith. This is why churches are quite happy to conspire with non-religious parents to get their kids into their faith schools.
Can those of us who oppose faith schools and the lack of separation between church and state not unite in some way and have some kind of voice. There must be far more of us than the members of some faiths, whose point of view seems far better represented
Saltycdogg Comment No. 807061" Can those of us who oppose faith schools and the lack of separation between church and state not unite in some way and have some kind of voice. There must be far more of us than the members of some faiths, whose point of view seems far better represented"
I suggest you join the "National Secular Society" (NSS) and the "British Humanist Association" (BHA). Both groups actively campaign against faith schools and argue for separation of church and state. However with only 6,000 members their voices are too often ignored by politicans.
Both Richard Dawkins and AC Grayling are Vice Presidents of BHA and Honourary Associates of NSS.
Saltycdogg Comment No. 807061 "Can those of us who oppose faith schools and the lack of separation between church and state not unite in some way and have some kind of voice. There must be far more of us than the members of some faiths, whose point of view seems far better represented"
I suggest you join the "National Secular Society" (NSS) and the "British Humanist Association" (BHA). Both groups actively campaign against faith schools and argue for separation of church and state. However with only 6,000 members each their voices are too often ignored by politicans.
Both Richard Dawkins and AC Grayling are Vice Presidents of BHA and Honourary Associates of NSS.
If you want to be proactive against faith schools, join the NSS and BHA.
Saltycdogg Comment No. 807061 "Can those of us who oppose faith schools and the lack of separation between church and state not unite in some way and have some kind of voice. There must be far more of us than the members of some faiths, whose point of view seems far better represented"
I suggest you join the "National Secular Society" (NSS) and the "British Humanist Association" (BHA). Both groups actively campaign against faith schools and argue for separation of church and state. However with only 6,000 members each their voices are too often ignored by politicans.
Both Richard Dawkins and AC Grayling are Vice Presidents of BHA and Honourary Associates of NSS.
If you want to be proactive against faith schools, join the NSS and BHA.
Comment No. 805858
September 11 11:32
GBR